EP146 The PQAR Experience: Mentorship, Research, and Growth

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EP146 The PQAR Experience: Mentorship, Research, and Growth

Aman Chopra: Folks, welcome back to another episode of the "I AM GPH" podcast. Pathways into Quantitative Aging Research, AKA PQAR, is a six week intensive summer program that hosts an all-in-one global public health experience to give students the skills needed not only to conduct research, but also apply to and succeed in graduate school. The program is not only teaching, but it's mentorship, self-discovery, networking, and so much more. In my research of this program, it takes a special kind of student to take on this kind of program. And today we have two superstars, Abena Dinizulu and Stephanie Perez, who have successfully completed the PQAR program in 2023. And they're here for all of you to tell you about their experiences with the program and what it's given them. Abena and Stephanie, welcome to the "I AM GPH" podcast. We're glad to have you here.

Stephanie Perez: Hi, thanks for having us.

Abena Dinizulu: Hi, thank you for having me.

Aman Chopra: That's awesome. All right, so let's get started. I wanna start off by hearing about the two of you. I have purposely not introduced the two of you, despite looking you both up, knowing where you are. Who are the two of you? And tell me the person you were before you joined this program, what was your specialty in public health? What made you even sign up for something like this? Tell us all of that. Who are you, where are you right now in the world, what's your public health path? 

Stephanie Perez: Before PQAR, I had just recently graduated from UCLA, where I studied international development and global health. But I was really interested in dental public health, and calling to attention the policy side and the underserved community side of dental public health ‘cause so much of it is only talked about in the clinic, and that was something that I was really wanting to uplift more as more important in the public health community. And so, I really wanted to participate in this program because of the links to aging and oral health diseases that often affect marginalized communities.

Aman Chopra: Okay, this is very interesting. Dental and public health. It's a first for us over here on the podcast, at least since I've been here. So you two are two unique individuals, right? If someone's listening to this podcast right now, they'll be like, "Oh, someone who's an advocate and then someone who's in the dental world of public health." And there are similar themes that are coinciding with the two of you. But how does this PQAR program come into play for everyone? So, for someone that hasn't heard about it, maybe someone's watching this episode that wants to apply to the program or has got into the program right now, whenever they're watching this. How would you describe the PQAR program to someone that's never heard about it?

Stephanie Perez: I would say it's a place, kind of like a boot camp or training camp to really become acquainted with all the different, not all of them, but a really good amount of a toolkit that you can use for public health. It teaches you research and the hidden curriculum around it. It gives you a little taste of biostats, a little taste of statistical computing, and other things like that. So, I think it just lets you know what's available for whatever you want to do in the public health sphere. 

Aman Chopra: So take me to the person that was applying to PQAR when you two were looking up for a program like this. Or how did you find out about it, and what were you doing in the process of applying for something like this?

Stephanie Perez: Yeah, when I was applying for this, I had been working at a research lab at UCLA. But it was a clinical research lab, whereas I was more interested in public health and seeing that side of things. As I mentioned before, I did major in international development and global health, which didn't expose me as much as I wanted to to the more quantitative areas of research that I really wanted to use in future dental public health endeavors. So I was really interested in PQAR for what it could teach me, and the skills that it could develop that I could use even in the future, whenever I do get to dental/NTH school and be able to build upon.

Aman Chopra: What were the expectations before you came in? And so you both were looking for something, right, before PQAR, that's why you signed up for the program. What were the expectations of the program, and where did it actually take you? So, were there any surprises that, "Oh my God, I didn't know I needed this?” Or, "This is interesting. I mean, this has either enhanced what I'm looking for or maybe it's redirected me." Did any of you have that experience?

Abena Dinizulu: When I started the program, I was excited by biostatistics. And I wasn't quite sure whether I wanted to do biostatistics or epidemiology. And the program really helped me decide between the two, that I'm more interested in epidemiology. Which is why I'm applying to NYU's MPH and epidemiology now. But I learned that mostly from all of the coding courses that we took. And I realized that on a day to day, it's not exactly what I would like to do. I would like to be involved in more things. And so, yeah, it was really helpful for me in that aspect. 

Aman Chopra: You thought you wanted something, and you found that you wanted a lot more than that?

Abena Dinizulu: Yeah.

Aman Chopra: Yeah, I love that, I love that. Was it similar for you, Stephanie, or you had a different experience?

Stephanie Perez:  Yeah, I would say, funnily enough, the program, I did realize that I did not want to necessarily be a biostatistician, but that I actually wanted to work with biostatisticians. And the reason for that is because I've always been interested in epidemiology and I've loved having a grasp of statistical computing. But I think it helped me realize that to do research, you don't have to do every step of the process and take control of everything. But in fact it's super collaborative, and that you can work with people, and have partners, and get to join together. And that you don't have to worry that, "Oh no, I have to be an epidemiologist and a biostatistician, and I have to be the PI, and I have to collect the data." But it's really a team effort. So I realized what I did like from research and what I didn't like as much, so that as I continue I can narrow things down to what I really want to build on. And then, actually secondarily, even joining PQAR, I was worried, not having come from a quantitative background, that I would be different from everyone else. Everyone would be a computer science whiz, and everyone would be an undergrad. And I was worried 'cause I had just been a recent grad. But actually our cohort ranged from so many different ages, stages in academic career, and even majors, and  backgrounds, and things that people were interested. Even seeing how different Abena and I were, everyone is so different in that way as well. So that was really encouraging, and really allowed us to embrace our uniqueness and our own paths.

Aman Chopra: I mean, I totally love hearing this. You two are so different, and you're saying the entire cohort was even more different than that. What a lovely, joyful experience. It's very rich to experience something like that. I'm interested to hear from the two of you. There might be someone watching this that is applying for the PQAR program, and they think they need something, or they think that this will take them in that direction. Perhaps since you two have been through this intense six week experience. They call it intensive and I feel like it's just a growth experience based on what you two have experienced. What kind of a person should apply to this program? What does it take to get accepted into this program in your eyes?

Abena Dinizulu: I would say someone who is passionate about public health work and really wants to create good quality data and gain good skills to do research should apply for the program. Don't feel intimidated by the title. We have so much support in the program. They teach us the basics of a lot of the coding that we need to do in the program. So really, I would say the passion. And of course, you do need some sort of math background to really grasp the concepts that are being taught. 

Stephanie Perez: I would say when applying, definitely just be super honest about where quantitative aging research fits into your own career path. And then also just be someone who's super open to learning about other people and other ways of public health that they might not be familiar with, and how that can fit in. We learn so much from each other and so much from the speakers. And even if, let's say I might not necessarily work with, let's say advanced maternal age health, things like that, it's something that can add value to how I'll practice public health in the future.

Aman Chopra: Okay, I mean, so essentially; be honest, know who you are, and go for it. If it fits, it fits. And what is it like when they will be in the program? If someone does get in, what should they expect to be in the program? Why don't you give me a thought around that? Where, okay, I come to you tomorrow, I got into the PQAR program. I run into both Stephanie and Abena on the street. I'm like, "Hey, I saw the interview of two of you. What should I expect from this program? I'm really nervous. It's six weeks, I don't know, will I get time to eat?" How would you answer that question to someone like that? 

Abena Dinizulu: I would say the program is a bit intense, because we do meet five days a week throughout those six weeks, and then we also had social activities on the weekends. And then as we came closer to the end of the program, where we had our symposium, things became very stressful for many of us. And so I would say, from day one, you really need to you on top of things so that you don't feel like you're behind at the end when we have to put together our presentations. But yeah, overall that sums it up for me.

Aman Chopra: Okay.

Stephanie Perez: I'd say overstimulating in the best way possible. Abena mentioned just a lot of research projects, classes that you're taking, research talks, guests that you're meeting, and things that you're learning about. Especially all taking place in New York, if you're like me and you've never been there before, it's a lot to take in at a time. But I definitely also say that it's work hard, play hard for PQAR. Just as much as we worked, we also had really great activities planned, like Broadway musicals, going to museums, doing escape rooms, and so many other things. It is just so much going on at a time. But for anyone who gets accepted to PQAR, I would say that you're gonna get as much as you try to absorb. And that whatever you want, whether it's to meet people in New York that might help you out, like a dean of admissions from a certain school of public health, or just looking for people that are engaged in work that you're interested in, you're gonna get so much out of it as long as you reach out and try to get it.

Aman Chopra: Wow, so the space is designed for you, and you can do what you want in that space. You were mentioning, Stephanie, coming to New York for the first time and it being overwhelming. And, Abena, you came into this program, I believe you are in New York. And I wonder what was the first week of the course like when you came into New York, and you're meeting your peers, your mentors? What was the first week of PQAR like for the two of you? Take us back to that moment. 

Stephanie Perez: For me, it was really just assessing where I had landed. The space, the environment. Being so shocked at what was available to me. How open, kind, and giving the program administrators were. Meeting Dr. Rebecca Betensky, and getting to see the vision for PQAR and the hopes that they all had for us to grow over the next few weeks. I think every moment, I'd say the first night, or every night during PQAR, I wouldn't go to sleep until late because either we'd be talking with one of our cohort members about things that we were passionate about, or we would be working on our research projects. So I would say from the get go, it was just moving forward, moving forward all the time. But it's a time that was very thrilling, and that I'm so excited to be able to maybe replicate one day when I'm practicing public health or doing my MPH and in dental school.

Aman Chopra: So you were mentioning, Stephanie, how you would have really late nights, you're talking to a lot of people. I'm curious to know, it's six weeks, but what does a 24 hour day look like? So tell me about a weekday and a weekend at the course.

Stephanie Perez: Yeah, so weekday, we would have to wake up very early 'cause we would have our classes, the morning classes, biostatistics and statistical computing at the school of public health. So it was very independent. So you would wake up, you would walk over a couple blocks to the class. And then you would mingle with your classmates. Talk about whatever you're working on that day, your own projects, questions about each other's lives. Do classes for a couple of hours, and then after that break off into lunch. Maybe meet with your research mentor, maybe sneak out for coffee or to have meet up with a faculty member from another school if you wanted to, if you had a little bit of time. We would have research talks where we would have guests come in, people from different organizations around New York. And then we would also have research ethics classes and other things like that that were really great.But a weekend, on the other hand, could involve taking a trip to Little Island.It could involve meeting up with each other,  having dinner at a nice place, going to comedy shows and things like that. I would say it was definitely a great place to be as a young person, being able to be in New York and get to know the city. Everything's so accessible. Not at all like California, where you can just travel anywhere. And it was really great. 

Aman Chopra: I want to hear any opportunities that you got outside of class as well for you that someone might not know of. What were the opportunities that PQAR got you beyond you're sitting in class, you're doing a lot of work, and then after that you're having social activities? What were some more professional opportunities that unlocked for you?

Stephanie Perez: Because I was in New York, I was able to meet up with one of the former dean of admissions for the NYU School of Dentistry. 'Cause they actually have a great public health and dental program that's mixed together, a dual degree program. So I got to have a chance to sit down with her, Dr. Eugenia E. Mejia. And ask some questions about the program, get to know her, which was great, I would not have gotten to do that had it not been for me being in New York. I got to take a look at some of the facilities. I got to even visit Columbia University, which was amazing. 

Aman Chopra: Wow.

Stephanie Perez: Yeah.

Aman Chopra: And then, by the way, folks, unfortunately we have had Abena cut off due to some technical difficulties. But we'll put all of her information in the description if you want to contact Abena. And we'll ask the last few thoughts about PQAR program to Stephanie. Who they both are equal superstars in the program, and I'm sure Stephanie can speak for Abena as well. So, Stephanie, beyond that, you said, how did it help you connect with the dentistry and the dental aspects of your interests that happened? Or did you find new interests as well in the program? 

Stephanie Perez: I think a struggle I've always had was the idea of wanting to be a public health minded dentist, but reconciling the idea of doing upstream or downstream, of helping communities upstream and downstream. Because I thought--

Aman Chopra: For people that don't know, what does upstream and downstream mean?

Stephanie Perez: Upstream is where you can do something more closer to the root of the issue, and downstream is further down. So my thought process for it was, as a clinician, if I was a dentist in a clinic, I would only be able to help people once they were already experiencing oral disease burden. Whereas as a public health researcher, I would be able to look at issues on why they start,  and be able to help put an end to certain things before they even begin. And so, I think what PQAR helped me see was that I could be both, and that I didn't have to do either or. That I could help people and be an immediate benefit to them, but I could also do things for entire populations, and not just one individual at a time.

Aman Chopra: Did that apply to you after the program ended? What did you end up doing after the program for yourself? So you probably checked in with your faculty over here, you checked in with your friends. Perhaps I'd love to hear what you were doing and what someone else was also doing that might have surprised you.

Stephanie Perez: Do you mean after the program?

Aman Chopra: After PQAR, yeah, after the summer program ended. Then what was life like for you? How did it change? What opportunities did you expose yourself to?

Stephanie Perez: Yeah, a lot of us ended up doing a lot of different things. For me, I returned to UCLA, where I'm currently getting my post bacc so that I can eventually apply to dental school. But I've also been working at an orthodontic clinic in Beverly Hills, which has been very interesting. But most recently, I got the opportunity to take the J-term at NYU.

Aman Chopra: Oh wow.

Stephanie Perez: Which is a three week term where we were able to take a graduate level course in the school of public health. So, I took intermediate coding in R, which builds off of the curriculum that we had during the summer. And that was also very intense. It differed from PQAR because we didn't have structured time, where we were told, okay, now we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this during this block of time, we're gonna meet this person. But it was very open-ended, to where you could do whatever you wanted to. So I took that time to reconnect with some people I had met during the summer. I took that time to explore other places in New York that I didn't get to during that initial summer. And of course, take the course, which was very, very intense, but we got through it. And I think it helped me realize that with work and trying again and not being afraid of failure, more is possible than we initially think. 

Aman Chopra: Have you seen that more in your peers? Are you still in touch with your peers from the program, or even from the J-term? Do you have a larger network within your public health, in your public health repertoire?

Stephanie Perez: Oh, definitely. With all of our cohort members, we actually have a group chat that we still talk in from time to time. 

Aman Chopra: Wow.

Stephanie Chopra: My research partners from just summer, Michael and Crystal, we talk about what we're up to. One of them is doing a PhD program, the other is applying to a PhD program. Other ones, I have my roommate from PQAR, she's finishing up her last year in undergrad. And so, just talking about some of us being in the workforce, others already doing public health work. Which has been really great. I think getting to see each other as we grow through the years, and go through our own careers, and the changes that are taking place. I think one day we'll find out that we have really great peers that have grown along with us. 

Aman Chopra: You have maximized everything out of this experience, it seems like when I talk to you. And I hear about everything you have achieved, what you have done next, how it's helped you move into that direction that you're looking for, find a new direction, and also update the direction you had perhaps. Is there something that you wish you did and you didn't do? People say, "No regrets," obviously. But at the same time, "There's something I wish I invested some time into this when I was at the program." What was that for you? If your friend who got into the program asked you, what is one thing you wish you did more of?

Stephanie Perez: Hmm. That's a difficult question. Hmm, I think… Hmm. I think I wish I had been able to take more advantage of exploring more areas of the city. I do know we had so much work to do, which was equally as rewarding. But I think it also would've been great to visit more areas, communities similar to the ones that I grew up in at home, and see what it's like on the East coast, and to really be able to let that inform how public health is so different in practice depending on where you are. And really get to know communities that I hadn't been informed of beforehand.

Aman Chopra: Yeah, and New York is very accessible as well in order to see those experiences. And within minutes you can go from one neighborhood to another, and it's a completely different experience over here.

Stephanie Perez: Yeah.

Aman Chopra: It's a great public health case study.

Stephanie Perez: Oh yeah.

Aman Chopra: Well, Stephanie, thank you for sharing your insights. And even to Abena who's not here right now, for your insights about what the PQAR program is all about. And I'm sure you have inspired multiple students that are gonna be applying for this program. And it's awesome to see that it's served you so well and it's opened up new doors for you. We can't wait to be back in touch with you over the next few years, and see where your public health journey takes you. 

Stephanie Perez: Definitely, maybe even at NYU.

Aman Chopra: Maybe, maybe. Well, we hope to have you here, we'd love to see you here again. And thanks for being on the podcast. Folks, that was our PQAR superstars from 2023. If you're interested in applying to the PQAR program or learning more, we'll put all the links in the description. We'll also have some links on the two students that took the program so you can learn more about them. And we really appreciate Stephanie and Abena being on the podcast. Thank you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Perez: Thank you.