Note: The I AM GPH podcast is produced by NYU GPH’s Office of Communications and Promotion. It is designed to be heard. If you are able, we encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emphasis that may not be captured in text on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts
EP143 Narratives of Global Health with Cat Hartwell
Aman Chopra: Folks, welcome back to another episode of the "I AM GPH" podcast. And I'm sure if you're watching this podcast, you all have probably watched numerous programs and films on platforms such as Netflix and National Geographic. Our guest today has actually had a bachelor's degree in film and television, followed by an extensive career in the world of media prior to diving into the world of public health where she got an MPH. She's an NYU GPH grad and is now at her dream job at the University of Washington as a research coordinator within the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences. I cann ot wait to hear all about your journey. Cat Hartwell, welcome to the "I AM GPH" podcast. We're glad to have you here.
Cat Hartwell: Thank you, Aman. I'm very happy to be here.
Aman Chopra: I mean, we've spoken to so many GPH grads and professors. You're one of the first that has been, I would say that I would consider you more of a media person first and then a public health individual second. So you spent decades of your life starting your career in film and television. And I'd like to go back to the beginning. How did that whole journey begin for you?
Cat Hartwell: Ooh, so that's interesting. I actually started my undergrad career thinking I was gonna study international relations. I always wanted to travel and I wanted to do sort of humanitarian work on that front. But when I got to my second year of Boston University and my program and I took the economics class, I was like, "I do not think I can do this." And at the same time, there was a really cool film scene happening at Boston University and I would see all these, like, at the time, cute boys on bikes with their film equipment and, you know, cool looking people. And I was like, "What are they doing?" And so I had to transfer schools from the College of Arts and Sciences to the College of Communications and it changed my whole outlook of what my education looked like. And I studied abroad in London, which was really cool. But even then I was, like, torn between photojournalism and film and I just was, like, a curious person always, not quite sure. I was not one of those people who had their clear vision of, you know, five year, 10 year, 15 year. I just kind of took a hard turn, a leap of faith, if you will, into the field of film. And it was really fun. When I graduated, I had no idea what I was gonna do with that degree though. So I moved to New York with a couple of friends who were also questioning what area of film we were gonna go into and what was next. And my first job was actually in a magazine – a lifestyle magazine in Soho. And then while I was doing that job, I interned simultaneously with a documentary producer on a music doc. It never came out, but it just showed me I actually was still interested in film. And then years later, there's a little twisty, turn-y road here too. But I got my first television job working on a VH1 program about stereotypes and racism in television. And it was called "Ego Trip’s Race-O-Rama". It was a really fun first project. I started at the very bottom rung, uploading video footage and doing lots of research, working super long hours over the summer. But it was a really, really fun first project. And I also think, like, material-wise, it was interesting and important to talk about. So that was my launch into the world of media.
Aman Chopra: Many GPH students probably don't know about the world of media as much, but we all do realize the importance of media. And you have started over there. I want to hear, I'd love to hear actually about when you started this journey, right, like you said, bottom of the wrong, intern at VH1 type of thing that you were doing, and what was a day in the life like over there? Like, what is someone have to actually do in the media world when you're executing all these tasks that might be different from someone in the world of public health right now?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, I mean, I think even going back to that position as a production assistant, there's intern and the next level is production assistant. Then you work your way up to associate producer and then eventually producer and then, you know, that's kind of the hierarchy of the industry in television. But as a production assistant, you do everything. And I think that, going back that far back, it really showed me how to multitask and be able to juggle different things 'cause you're receiving, at the time, it was tapes of, like, music videos that we were then digitizing for the editors. Simultaneously, you're doing, like, fact checking for things that they need for legal purposes. Again, it's, like, MTV Viacom. So they were very, very particular. I wasn't creating scripts at that time, but eventually, as you move up the rung, you're doing that. But I think that, you know, with the fact checking, you're reviewing scripts. So there is a lot of research, you know, even on the media side of things. Pulling up video options to… this was an archival show. So the kind that, like, you look at old videos. So if you're talking about something, a TV show or like, a rap group for the case of this program, you're looking at, like, 1990s videos. It was really fun. Having access to the MTV archival library was really fun. And I'm not gonna lie, I maybe pulled some things for my own purposes to watch music videos in my spare time. It was a gift.
Aman Chopra: It's kind of like it set you up for your path later on 'cause the work sounds similar where you're doing multiple tasks, you're researching everything, and then you're formulating a cohesive direction with whatever industry you're in when it comes to public health. But I'll stick to media right now because I'm excited to go into the public health. You're an assistant producer and then you are a producer. What is even a producer in this context for some people that don't know?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, so eventually, after my many steps up the ladder and twists and turns, I found my way to being first a field producer, which was really, really, again fun, but also stressful. So field producing is when you're going out into the field with your crew and if there's talent, there's talent with you, your director, your cinematographer, you'll have a sound person. You're in charge of the casting. And this is for documentaries too. If you're doing a story like we did in Australia for "Cooked" on fire and foods that involve fire, we had to cast and we were casting from the Martu tribe in Western Australia. And so we were so far away, literally I think, like, the furthest we could be away in New York City from Perth, Australia and plus 12 hours of travel. And so how do we cast that far away? So I built a relationship, which all of this stuff eventually transfers to my public health work. But I built a relationship first with an academic at Stanford talking about the subject matter. And then he introduced me to a young indigenous filmmaker named Curtis Taylor, who was really, like, our entry point into the community. But also it was cool because we got to work with Curtis and Curtis filmed some of this stuff and he got producer credit. So it was, like, a really cool collaborative experience. But that was also part of the field producer role is, you know, finding someone in such a remote location so far away who can help you get access to the people that you wanna tell their stories. And so Curtis really then helped us with casting. And then you plan the other part, a big part of producing is logistics. And in some of the places I've filmed, logistics have been very challenging. Remote locations like Western Australia, the Amazon River Basin in Peru, talking about the same series, but talking about chocolate and even more as a producer. But I was in charge of logistics for filming underwater in the Great Barrier Reef. So there's lots of legal things to consider and safety things to consider. And on top of that, you have to make sure that your crew, when you're with them in the field, are happy and are fed. And it helps to, like, know what people's coffee preferences are, for example.
Aman Chopra: I mean, you have already taken me through both sides of the globe in a way in the past two minutes. Can you tell me about some of those, the places and the experiences you had as someone that was working in production in that journey before you went into public health?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah. The experience of filming in Western Australia was truly a dream. Like first of all, it was just so remote. We had to take, you know, it was 22 hours of flying from New York City to get to Perth with a layover in Abu Dhabi. Then once you got to Perth, you had to take a two hour flight, which was really fascinating 'cause there were all these mining workers on the flight. And that seemed to be a pathway. We were definitely, like, stuck out like sore thumbs. We weren't the regulars on that route. And then from there, we took a bus into the outback to the Martu lands, and that's where we stayed. But there wasn't housing. There's not a hotel when you're that remote. So, like, that experience, you know, we had our own popup tents that were, like, just the top of it was just here. And you know, Australia is famous for having all kinds of poisonous creatures. So, you know, as you lay under your popup tent before you go to sleep, I was like, "Spiders? No, no, it's good. It'll be fine." And obviously, I'm here to live the tale, to tell the tale. And so yeah, that's just one experience. But it was really, like, it was incredible to be in that environment and talking to people who… I met a woman who was there for first contact with Western civilization. She was one of the elders. I mean, that was just truly, I don't even know the word for it. Like, it was just, like, awesome. I mean that in the way of like awe inspiring.
Aman Chopra: I mean, I'm 100% sure you can go into 5,000 different stories from each place. I'd love to hear about all the places you've been through as a part of this experience of shooting around the world.
Cat Hartwell: I'll do a more concise version. Something that helped me get interested in disasters. There's a couple of experiences that I had. One was on our location shoot in Peru. There was a landslide while we were shooting and so shooting, I mean filming and so on our drive back, we got to the one road that takes you in and out of town and you couldn't cross it. And so I had never seen a landslide. It was a mudslide. It washed out the roads. We logistically had to deal with that situation. Fortunately, there happened to be an eco hotel up the road and on our satellite phone, I got people in New York to get us the rooms that were available and, you know, I was hustling little toothbrushes for the crew. But I mean, that was one experience that really stuck with me. And then for "Years of Living Dangerously" when I was in Australia in the Great Barrier Reef filming, there was a hurricane, cyclone and that was in 2015. So December, 2015. And it was very severe. And so that too altered our plans and there was loss of life during that event. And it just, again, like, we were filming a story about climate change and about how storms were gonna become more intense and more frequent. And here we were faced with that in the middle of a shoot. So those are just... Yeah.
Aman Chopra: I can see some foreshadowing happening right now. And I think even the viewers know, especially the public health students know exactly what's taking you into your direction. But before we get into that, I'd love to hear about how someone ends up working with organizations like Nat Geo and Netflix.
Cat Hartwell: Sure, yeah.
Aman Chopra: What was that journey like? To me, it's fascinating that you have had such an extensive career doing incredible things and having such incredible experiences in production and media and beyond that, you're in this direction, you're on a public health podcast right now, and I'd love to hear that experience of getting into these media outlets and that unlocking something for you. But more from a fan perspective, what is it like to get into Nat Geo and Netflix?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting 'cause it's not like a straight shot. So when I was a kid, I also wanted to be a photographer for National Geographic, like I think many kids do. And the closest I got was producing documentaries for National Geographic. So I'll take it. My husband happens to know a couple of photographers who have taken photos for National Geographic. And their stories are amazing. But I feel like this has been an adjacent awesome journey. And so getting to do the National Geographic series "Years Living Dangerously" focused on climate change was a dream. And if that project could have gone on for the rest of my life, I would've happily worked on that project for the rest of my life. And then a couple years later, I worked on another Nat Geo project in partnership with Global Citizen. And we got to go to South Africa. There was their Global Citizen concert. Beyonce was there with Jay-Z. Like, you know, I pinched myself on that trip too. So there's an element of pinching yourself when you think about it. But the reality is, like, you're not working directly for National Geographic. Those aren't your credentials. Typically, you work for a production company that then is, you know, hired or Nat Geo buys the series that you're working on. So it looks cooler in the credits, but you're not necessarily, like, I wasn't employed by National Geographic. I was employed by Radical Media...
Aman Chopra: Right.
Cat Hartwell: Which makes a lot of really, really cool documentaries and other content. And similarly for Netflix, both times I worked on Netflix series. One, I was at Buzzfeed News and the other, I was at Jigsaw and Jigsaw's Alex Gibney's company. He's an Oscar-winning director. And they get a lot of shine I think too.
Aman Chopra: There might be some students watching this that are very interested in media and they have had that public health itch inside of them and they've started the other way around maybe, if they want to go in that direction. Or even students that, you know, there's so many group class projects that keep coming in for people, whether they're in undergrad or grad school where they make a video on this, make a video on that. And there's always a few students that take it to the next level. Their passion of filmmaking, their passion of documenting, their passion of creating media comes out. What might that look, what might you give, what might you tell those people that are going into the world of media or are interested in the world of media, but are public health first and then thinking about media as an adjacent for themselves. What is something that comes to your mind when you think of those students?
Cat Hartwell: That's a really good question. And I think I would recommend that they work on building up, like, the tangible skill sets of media production. Like, grab a camera or learn how to edit. I learned how to edit. I never learned how to shoot, but that was helpful for, you know, then I would get footage and string it together to, like, do the first pass of stories as a story producer, for example. But learn some of those tangible skills. There's lots of technology that you can DIY. I mean, Adobe has lots of stuff now that is very helpful. And I think I say that 'cause then you're able to actually make stuff yourself. I wish I could do more on that end 'cause even in projects I'm working on now, people are like, "Oh, it'd be great." And in public health in the field, we're always like, "It'd be great if we had a video for that." But I don't shoot. I edit, I write, I produce, you know, I can do the logistics. I can write a script, but I am not a person who can pick up a camera. And I think that kind of stuff is really helpful. If you can do one or two things, you know, camera and sound or editing, it'll help you along the way to merge your interests.
Aman Chopra: Oh, so if I hear you right, it's mainly start somewhere and then find your area of interest and then merge it with public health. It's like finding a niche essentially in what you're good at in public health or what you enjoy the most. And then adding that with the media side of things, if that's where someone's interest lies.
Cat Hartwell: I think so, and I also think it's really important, and this is for those people, to translate the language of public health that's academic into a more digestible form for your average American or global citizen, if you will. And I think that sometimes the language is so in its niche that people don't understand what you're saying. And so if you can learn how to do that kind of translation, there's a place for that too in media. Not just video, but I think in journalism as well.
Aman Chopra: Oh, I mean, how do you even approach and learn about public health through storytelling? How does one even do that?
Cat Hartwell: I don't know how to answer that question. That's a tough one.
Aman Chopra: Perhaps what are the things that come to your mind? Like, what are some important facets of storytelling in your head when it comes to...
Cat Hartwell: Yeah.
Aman Chopra: …sharing a message?
Cat Hartwell: I think it's really important to make it personal and so when you're dealing with storytelling, I think it's, like, finding a, starting at a place that people can connect to, be it your own or, you know, get to the human level of what's going on. You know, you can hear about wildfire smoke, I'm sorry, I'm talking from a climate lens. Or you can hear about a disease, you know, an infectious disease. But then when you meet someone whose child is suffering from that disease, it becomes real. And that's the storytelling element. That's where I would begin is finding your connection.
Aman Chopra: So share your personal story or share a personal story of someone. Be the voice for someone else and take that forward or carry your voice forward as a start in order to get into storytelling.
Cat Hartwell: I think so.
Aman Chopra: It helps 'cause so much public health stuff is probably rather theoretical. And how do we support that theoretical with something that's emotional as well, and to kind of make the two of them fit together, I would assume.
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, I think you have to make it relatable, right? Like, public health is for the public and what the public is people. So you know, to me it always does come back to people at the end of the day.
Aman Chopra: How lovely. I mean, look, there's this extensive career. I'm sure a lot of people are fanning over you right now. Like, "Whoa." That's the kinda work Cat has done. I'm intrigued to know, I mean, we kind of have an idea, but very rarely does someone move from the media world into academia. It's in a way going, Hey wait, I'm gonna go back to school. But usually people go back to school to enhance something. You have, on paper, done a 180, but there's definitely enough pieces of the puzzle that people can tell, especially the public health students of why you chose to come to GPH after this entire journey. What made you make that decision?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, that's a little bit of a story, but I'll try to keep it short. I think that...
Aman Chopra: Just make sure you make it personal.
Cat Hartwell: Oh yes, it is very personal. I think that for a while I had seen that the writing on the wall, that I thought that the documentary producer life was not necessarily sustainable as I was going to get older. All the travel, it's very long hours, it can be very stressful. And as fun as it was, I was like, "Hmm, I don't know if I'll be able to do this for another 20 to 30 years." So that's, like, not that romantic pragmatic lens. But also as I was working on stories over the years, I started to feel this, like, deep call that, like, I wanted to do something more directly impactful. And it was that Global Citizen series, which was the last program I worked on that really, like, shone the light for me on what I thought, like, these skills as a producer could be transferable to something else. And I was getting up every day talking to people at NGOs in Nigeria and South Africa listening to their work, thinking about logistics. And I was like, "I think there's some there there. Like, there's some way that I could, like, do, be on the other side of this, you know, and be the one talking to the TV person perhaps."
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: That's not what I ended up doing. That's not the road I took. But that was kind of...
Aman Chopra: Yeah.
Cat Hartwell: This idea that started to bubble. And then I was having this debate like, what is it I should study? Should I study policy or should I study, I don't even know. And someone planted the seed for public health. And when I looked at it, I was like, of course, like, so many of the series that I had worked on touched on public health issues, especially the Buzzfeed series where I had an awesome working experience with Azeen Ghorayshi, who's at the "New York Times" now, and Ahmed Ali Akbar, who I think just started as a food person in Chicago. But at the time, I was working with these journalists on issues like swatting and harm reduction and the IVF and reproductive rights issue that is very, very current we were talking about in 2018. So I was like, "Oh, public health, of course. How obvious? Climate change is public health. Everything is public health. It makes so much sense."
Aman Chopra: And that took you into academia and then I'm assuming, what was that journey like at GPH? What was it like going to school after being in productions?
Cat Hartwell: First of all, it was really quick. I applied in March and I started in September. So that was like, "Whoa, okay, I'm back in school." You know, I didn't really have a time to really think about what that was gonna be like, the adjustment. I finished my job in July and started in September. But it was really exciting to be back in school. I did have to, like, relearn how to study after, you know, more than 15 years of being out of school. I had to relearn how to study. I had to remember, I mean, reading for school is really hard and different and I just had to, like, relearn some old skills and I took advantage of things like study groups in the beginning especially. And then COVID came and ruined all that. But you know, there was, like, there was a community in the beginning that I really took advantage of and there was lots of support and I definitely was a person who was like, "Yes, tutoring sessions on statistics. Thank you. I will do that."
Aman Chopra: Tell me about that academic journey. So it was two years you had the, you were a pandemic cohort as well, I'm assuming?
Cat Hartwell: Yes.
Aman Chopra: What was that entire experience of being a student like for you and where did it take you into your journey after that?
Cat Hartwell: I loved my experience as a student. I really was sad when it was over because if I honestly, like, if I could have tacked on one more year and done a double, some of my friends were MPA/MPH in hindsight, I really wish I could have done something like that just to extend the experience even longer. And to bolster my education even more.
Aman Chopra: What is an MPA for those of that...
Cat Hartwell: Oh, yes.
Aman Chopra: For someone who might not know.
Cat Hartwell: No problem. Yeah, that's a master's of public administration and actually at University of Washington, there's a combo Master's of Urban Planning that's pretty cool. I think there's lots of options for dual degrees that I didn't know about until I was already enrolled, which I recommend people who are interested in more than one thing with public health explore. But the education experience was awesome. And I was part of Dr. Dickey, his AGPHI, Applied Global Public Health Initiative, lab. And then I went on to be project manager in my second year of that lab. Just kind of transferring those skills of being a producer to the lab. And I feel like I just said yes to everything when I was in school.
Aman Chopra: I think I've mentioned this on this podcast before with other guests, should school kind of be something like this, say yes to everything at school and say no to everything after you leave so you find what you want? Is that kind of the vibe that people take?
Cat Hartwell: Oh, I like that idea. I definitely am not a person who does that, but I think I also had to be careful 'cause at one point, I may have said yes too much and I know that people are wary of that. I was very fortunate that I was a full-time student and that I had carved that out for myself. I know that working people can't always say yes to everything, but for me, I feel like yes in school let me try lots of things and learn some of the things I maybe didn't like as much. And I have not yet said no after school. So, if you have tips on how to do that, I'd love to hear them.
Aman Chopra: For the students that might be at GPH right now or are incoming students, we're recording this in 2024. Someone might be watching this in even 2026. What are some of the classes that had a profound impact on your career and where you went after that?
Cat Hartwell: Yes, I jotted these down because I felt like I would miss some of them. But for me being interested in climate change, specifically starting off with environmental health, global environmental health, which is a requirement anyways, was critical. I went on to take environmental health assessments, that course with Dr. Jack Caravanos and that class, you know, just built on what I had learned before. We went out and we did some air pollution sampling. Just learning how that stuff works and just building and deepening my knowledge on, like, air pollution, which is something that I look at now when thinking about wildfire smoke out here. Risk communication was a very important class for me with Dr. David Abramson. I feel like that paired with management of public health disasters with Dr. Robyn Gershon were, like, this disaster packet that, like, I was already curious about. But then I was like, "Oh yeah, there's a lot here." And as far as the suite of courses that were offered at the time when I was a student, like, I felt the through line with my interest in climate change. And then the kind of the most important class that I took related to the work I do now was a qualitative course with Alexis Merdjanoff. It was a qualitative analysis mixed methods class. And unfortunately, I took it in my last semester of school or else I might have gone further into that kind of qualitative research...
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: You know, coursework. But that really set me up. If I had not taken that class, I would not have the job that I have today. And I wanna add one more course that was, like...
Aman Chopra: Of course.
Cat Hartwell: Life changing period, which was the behavior and communications in global epidemics course in Abu Dhabi that Dr. Dickey leads. That was an amazing experience, but also, like we were talking about that as COVID was beginning to unfold.
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: And when I think about that course and the timing, it just felt so critical and important.
Aman Chopra: It's fascinating to see that GPH has courses, NYU GPH has courses where professors are kind of creating them in the midst of something that's happening in the world at the time, which you're kind of influencing how people will think about it down the line and are in the weeds in a way while taking a class. I've noticed that from a few students I've spoken to over here. So you had the similar experience with your class in Abu Dhabi as well. So I'm curious, Cat, when I go back to the Cat that started leaving film school and was confused and went in all different directions, this Cat after a master's degree seems very focused and clear on what she wants to do. Where did that take you after you finished GPH?
Cat Hartwell: It's interesting you say that 'cause I'm still always, like, looking at all of the potential trails off the road I'm on. But I knew I wanted to do stuff that was community engaged or community focused. I knew that I was interested in environmental justice and climate change and the disaster preparedness element to that community resilience made a lot of sense to me. So with all of that in mind, and you know, I was applying for lots of jobs after I graduated, as everybody does. I really thought I was gonna end up in Washington, DC and...
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: I thought it would be more of a policy, some sort of, you know, a nonprofit or an NGO, but someone that actually had spoken in my risk communication course, Kris Ludwig is her name and she's actually with the White House now with the Office of Science and Technology. She came and was a guest speaker and after that class, I pinged Dr. Abramson and was like, "She's amazing and can I talk to her? You know, I want advice from her. I wanna do something." You know, she had, like, sailed around the arctic. She was just, like, an inspiration. And so he was like, of course, connected me. We had an informational interview, which I think are something I'll come back to later as advice for students. And it went great. And she sent me this opportunity at University of Washington. And at the time, I was very comfortably a New Yorker of 20 years. And my husband and I talked about it and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna delete this job. Just Washington so far." And he was like, "No, no, we said we'd go for everything. Like, go for it."
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: And then I took a closer look at the job and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is community engaged research, community resilience, disaster preparedness." There was, like, an element to it that was about extreme heat, which was something I'm very passionate about as an environmental justice issue. I was like, "This is actually perfect for me." So I applied, and then I let Kristin know. I let Kristin know I applied and she pinged my current boss and was like, "Hey, this person's great." And I just think it was, that's one of those things NYU has is just the incredible network. I think that that set me up for my interview and kind of probably helped push my resume to the top of the pile.
Aman Chopra: Oh. What is the day in the life now for you? What does this job entail? It seems to be like you left a 20 year life in New York and now you've gone into this direction and what do you love about this job so much? What do you do on a regular basis?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, well first of all, I just need to say I didn't have Seattle on my bingo card for where I was gonna go after school. But University of Washington is great. It's really cool to be in this state that is so progressive, especially on climate change. I don't know, Jay Inslee, like, ran on climate in 2020 and we have lots of cool policies that I think help make the work easier. And I think that's why with my interests, this makes a lot of sense for me to be here at this point in time. I started my position funded by a grant that was focused on extreme heat and extreme heat preparedness and response across the US specifically. And that grant is actually coming to a close. But I will say, like, what it looked like when I started and what it looks like now are two different things. In the beginning, I was doing lots of stuff focused on extreme heat. We did a national survey. I was getting that ready, distributing that, you know, working with someone to do the analysis. I'm not a quant girl. We wrote up a paper that's been published and we've built on that. So now today, a day in the life is this morning I finished last looks at our manuscript before we send it to the co-authors, hopefully for the last time for a build-on study on the heat work. Looking at the lessons learned from the Pacific Northwest Heat dome that happened in 2021. So this project's been a long time in the works, but I'm excited to share it with the world when it finally comes out hopefully next year.
Aman Chopra: A day in the life at a media job was very intense and looking out for each other, large teams on the ground. How does this job differ for you though, the world you're in right now? Are there similarities with that or is a day in the life something that's more behind the computer for you?
Cat Hartwell: Well, the timelines are way different. With television work, I had very specific deadlines and I knew what they were and you know, they were quick. And I think that was a learning adjustment for me coming into academia when my boss, Dr. Nicole Errett would ask for things, I'd have to be like, "When do you want this?" You know? And she'd be like, "Oh, next week, two weeks, what makes sense?" And I was like, "What? Like, you don't need this tomorrow?" So that was a nice adjustment for me. Now I'm two and a half years in my position, you know, I'm helping with grant writing. It's the reason I'm gonna have a job past the end of my first grant. I'm helping on, I think I counted, it's between, like, seven and nine projects at the moment. Like, so there's, you know, every day looks different, which I love. And that's similar to TV, but juggling lots of things. But the tasks themselves are so different. You know, it depends on which project it is.
Aman Chopra: For the students that are considering moving into academia, perhaps without a PhD in your case and someone that wants to move into academia or likes that life, what is the life of academia like for you?
Cat Hartwell: So I think that being a research coordinator is a good place for someone who doesn't have a PhD and is considering a PhD 'cause you can really see up close what that looks like. My boss who is running our lab is, you know, constantly applying for grants and thinking about what's next. I'm, like, helping carry out the work for those grants. And to me, that is the really, I feel really grateful for that because I get to sometimes interface with community, build trust for studies, for recruitment. You know, we're working on a study right now on the coast of Washington looking at coastal erosion in a really rural community. And that's taken lots of, like, effort on our part to just go out there, let them know that we're serious, show our face, you know, let them know who we are and what we're doing. Allow for questions. That kind of relationship building stuff that, like, I know that the head of our lab doesn't have time to do, unfortunately. So, you know, there's lots of engagement, which I love and writing. If you like to write, there's lots of writing involved including grant and manuscript and reports, logistics, you know, that ties back to the old producer skills for me. But there's thinking about not necessarily budgets, but I mean, you have to think about budgets, but you know, it's not like you're not in the weeds necessarily with the Excel spreadsheets, but I think it's like logistics in the way of when is this, when are you gonna interview people? When are you gonna do the analysis? When will you be sharing it back? What does that realistically look like? That kind of planning.
Aman Chopra: Okay. Well, there might have been two kinds of students, someone who heard that and got very excited and someone who heard that and turned the video off. But you have given people a great direction on what to expect and that's very important in their own skill sets that are there. We're finding our niches essentially through this podcast as well from time to time. So, Cat, I'm curious to know in this final question, what's next for you? I know you're writing a new grant, so that's the next part of the job that's unlocking. What kind of experiences does that unlock for you?
Cat Hartwell: Well, actually all of our grants right now I think are in a good place. And so now it's doing the work. So I'm really excited. I was just in Alaska last...
Aman Chopra: Wow.
Cat Hartwell: Week for a project. It's an EPA-funded grant and we're working with community partners in tribal communities and they're gonna be doing stuff over the summer to basically identify priorities for wildfire smoke impacts. And so that's just part of that project. But I'm excited about where we are with that. I've started recently in partnership with a PhD student. We're working on building capacity with freely associated states and territories in the Pacific. That's really awesome. And we have an awesome partner in Palau who's, like, helping us basically with our recruitment efforts and the heat stuff is wrapping up. And so I'm looking forward to getting that out in the world. And what else? I think one of the big things we have that's happening this year is the CDC Region 10 preparedness center. There's gonna be a bunch of them. I don't know if you know about these, but these centers are working on preparedness across the country. There's six right now work plans and hopefully that'll get funded. So that's something that's a little bit in development, but that's keeping me busy for sure. I'm a work plan...
Aman Chopra: Oh.
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, I'm a work plan coordinator on that, so that's keeping me plenty busy.
Aman Chopra: So we're recording this in 2024 and I wonder where do you see the Cat Hartwell, the direction of Cat in two years from now, three years from now? The questions you didn't ask in undergrad, how are those questions answered now for you?
Cat Hartwell: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm figuring out a couple of things. I did actually apply for a doctor of public health program...
Aman Chopra: Nice.
Cat Hartwell: This year at Johns Hopkins. But if I don't get that, I'm also not going to cry. It will be fine because I love what I'm doing and thinking about next steps as far as the kind of work I'd like to do as, like, a program manager down the road. I'm particularly interested in extreme heat and environmental justice. So something in that realm. I do eventually wanna come back to New York City because the east coast is my home. But in the meantime, just enjoying all of the things that Seattle and the Pacific Northwest have to offer.
Aman Chopra: Well, we're wishing you good luck. We know DrPHs are great. We have one here at NYU as well. And some of our most eccentric guests are from the DrPH program. And you are someone that exemplifies that as well for what GPH is all about and the world of public health, how anyone is accepted, no matter where they come from and they can contribute. Thanks for being on the podcast, Cat. It was lovely, lovely having you today.
Cat Hartwell: Thanks, Aman. It's been great.
Aman Chopra: Take care, everyone. We'll see you in the next episode. Like, subscribe, put a comment down below if you have any questions and we'll see you in the next episode.